When Ken livingston was Mayor he started a "consultation" to see if Londoners wanted a LEZ. Most people i spoke to said no but despite this he went ahead with it and started it. As a result thousands of truck drivers and now van drivers have to pay thousands to change their vehicles to avoid paying a daily extortionate fine to use them within the M25.Car owners on the other had are not affected despite the fact that many of them are polluting the air we breath in much higher levels.Boris johnson said before he came to power that he would look again at the LEZ if elected as he ws aware that Thousands of people were not happy with the system and the facts that they were not convinced it was fumes from vans and trucks that was causing global warming.To date Mayor johnson has nothing to look at the LEZ and has no intention of doing so....The reason is simple. He and the government are making so much money from the LEZ it it would be stupid for them to scrap it. Two questions though.

1. Where are small businesses supposed to get money for new vans/trucks without help from the government and the Mayor?

2. Where are all the hundreds and thousands of older trucks and vans going to go after they are not allowed in London?

The mayor does not care!!!

Further questions

1. Why do Londoners have to breathe all the belching fumes from trucks and vans from outside the M25?

2. Can the LEZ scheme be expanded to encompass all motor vehicles?

3. Why do battered white van and commercial truck drivers feel they have the right to pollute without consequence?

> 2. Can the LEZ scheme be expanded to encompass all
> motor vehicles?

It certainly should be.

> 3. Why do battered white van and commercial truck
> drivers feel they have the right to pollute without
> consequence?

Indeed. Surely a clean and well-maintained van/truck is good for business, too? Why do they bother to paint their business name and number on the side of scruffy and belching vehicles. When I see one it tells me who not to call!

obviously not a driver then.can you then tell me then how we as londoners can operate a business where we have to move items in and around the city such as grocery deliveries etc without the use of vans and trucks? Perhaps on bycicles eh?
Oh for the record my vehicles are eco friendly running on bio- diesel but because of their age still come under LEZ charging policies and they have cats fitted too......What is not fair is that i am being penalised just because of the age of my vehicle not because it belches out smoke which it does not!!

> obviously not a driver then.can you then tell me then
> how we as londoners can operate a business where we
> have to move items in and around the city such as
> grocery deliveries etc without the use of vans and
> trucks? Perhaps on bycicles eh?

If you are replying to me, where did I say you can't use a van?

I said:

"Surely a clean and well-maintained van/truck is good for business, too? Why do they bother to paint their business name and number on the side of scruffy and belching vehicles. When I see one it tells me who not to call!"

What's wrong with that? Why can't you maintain and clean your vehicles like other responsible road users?

It sounds like you maintain your vehicles well, but many others don't. It's unfortunate that such laws are necessary to bring people into line or fine them.

I have a car and my insurance premiums are higher than they should be because of the amount of uninsured drivers out there. I'm not happy with that but there is no such thing as a perfectly fair world. The LEZ is generally a benefit and you should recognise that rather than going on a selfish rant.

The lez only benefits the government and the TFL not the van/truck drivers. I like millions of other drivers coming ino the M25 also have to pay the lez. Everyone with a car does not. My post was all about the fairness of the whole system and what we were told when asked what we wanted. The message is CLEAR and SIMPLE....

It does not matter what we want, we get what the government and the TFL give us and we have no choice but to accept it. This if you look at it properly spells it out quite Clearly and simply too...... Consultations are a waste of time but clearly a legal process, they(TFL) will do what they want anyway!!!!
Don't think that cars will not be next because they will and as you say , i will not be selfish then because you will also be affected and we'll see how you like paying more when you do not have to!At present the introduction of the LEZ has cost me in excess of £20,000 having to upgrade my vehicles and I received not one penny from TFL or the Government towards something I was forced into but voted against. What did it cost you?

I am not selfish but actually one of many thousands who fel the same but whos arguments are being ignored for the sake of money and politics!! Try readin the whole post and stop worrying about insurance , we all pay that and probably more than you too

> > 2. Can the LEZ scheme be expanded to encompass all
> > motor vehicles?
> It certainly should be.
>
> > 3. Why do battered white van and commercial truck
> > drivers feel they have the right to pollute without
> > consequence?
> Indeed. Surely a clean and well-maintained van/truck
> is good for business, too? Why do they bother to
> paint their business name and number on the side of
> scruffy and belching vehicles. When I see one it
> tells me who not to call!

I guess it's a matter of priorities. If you have a choice between paying your rent/lease, paying your suppliers so they don't take you to court, and making sure your van doesn't pollute so much - which do you do if you're strugging to keep your business afloat? At least now there's a financial incentive for doing so, if it's the stick rather than the carrot.

Actually my van and my truck let out less emmisions than most cars because they have a catylyctic convertor fitted most cars however older than 2001 do not and are causing more damage to the ozone layer than both my vehicles.I can understand the argument if i had older vehicles without cats fitted but i am sorry, on this occasion i am being penalised just because of the age of my vehicles. My neighbour has a 6 cylinder 1988 E reg 325 bmw convertible that smoked terribly yet he is exempt from the LEZ charging and thats not right. My vehicles are better for the environment than his yet i am penalised. Oh and guess what..... he;s a councillor fo the green party... laugh that eh!!!!

Cats have been fitted to all vehicles by law for many years now but the problem with cats is that they increase CO2 emmissions, exactly the global warming gases we need to avoid (as well as all the other pollutants like PM10 particles, NO2 etc etc, which admittedly cats eliminate).

You say that cats help prevent damage to the ozone layer - pollutants from motor vehicles have little or nothing to do with the ozone layer. Ozone layer damge is caused by chemicals in refrigeration units largely and previously in aerosol cans, before the law was changed. Cats on cars actually increase global warming gases (as outlined above) but remove other pollutants which are bad for health. However if your cats were fitted a few years ago, they are probably ineffective by now. Cats only have a life span of several years.

I do understand your point regarding transport of goods etc around London and to be honest I also believe that penalties are not always the way forward - how about positive encouragement such as money off VED/road tax for vehicles which don't pollute for example? Or perhaps we need to encourage freight back onto the railways rather than having massive artic trucks trying to get around London?

However I still believe that many journeys into central London are completely pointless. people drive a mater of 2 miles or less when they could just as easily have walked, biked, bussed etc. I welcome any measures to reduce the rubbish belched into the air we breathe.

> I do understand your point regarding transport of
> goods etc around London and to be honest I also
> believe that penalties are not always the way forward
> - how about positive encouragement such as money off
> VED/road tax for vehicles which don't pollute for
> example? Or perhaps we need to encourage freight
> back onto the railways rather than having massive
> artic trucks trying to get around London?


How do you get the goods from the point of origin to the railway station, and to their destination from the station at the other end?

> When Ken livingston was Mayor he started a
> "consultation" to see if Londoners wanted a LEZ. Most
> people i spoke to said no but despite this he went
> ahead with it and started it. As a result thousands
> of truck drivers and now van drivers have to pay
> thousands to change their vehicles to avoid paying a
> daily extortionate fine to use them within the
> M25.Car owners on the other had are not affected
> despite the fact that many of them are polluting the
> air we breath in much higher levels.Boris johnson
> said before he came to power that he would look again
> at the LEZ if elected as he ws aware that Thousands
> of people were not happy with the system and the
> facts that they were not convinced it was fumes from
> vans and trucks that was causing global warming.To
> date Mayor johnson has nothing to look at the LEZ and
> has no intention of doing so....The reason is simple.
> He and the government are making so much money from
> the LEZ it it would be stupid for them to scrap it.
> Two questions though.
>
> 1. Where are small businesses supposed to get money
> for new vans/trucks without help from the government
> and the Mayor?
>
> 2. Where are all the hundreds and thousands of older
> trucks and vans going to go after they are not
> allowed in London?
>
> The mayor does not care!!!

You say "The mayor does not care"!!! well he does as we all know that he DID look at Kens dictates and found them wanting. So the expected extension to the LEZ starting October 2010 has been put aside. Simply as its not fair or reasonable.

All vehicles over three years old must undergo a MOT and they can fail if they pollute. There were the days when diesels used to bletch out smoke, those days have gone as diesels have expensive catalytic converters and they are virtually no more polluting than petrol cars.

The Mayor has proved that he thinks of people first, that's a first in the last ten years of badly run government and London.

Emin

> > When Ken livingston was Mayor he started a
> > "consultation" to see if Londoners wanted a LEZ. Most
> > people i spoke to said no but despite this he went
> > ahead with it and started it. As a result thousands
> > of truck drivers and now van drivers have to pay
> > thousands to change their vehicles to avoid paying a
> > daily extortionate fine to use them within the
> > M25.Car owners on the other had are not affected
> > despite the fact that many of them are polluting the
> > air we breath in much higher levels.Boris johnson
> > said before he came to power that he would look again
> > at the LEZ if elected as he ws aware that Thousands
> > of people were not happy with the system and the
> > facts that they were not convinced it was fumes from
> > vans and trucks that was causing global warming.To
> > date Mayor johnson has nothing to look at the LEZ and
> > has no intention of doing so....The reason is simple.
> > He and the government are making so much money from
> > the LEZ it it would be stupid for them to scrap it.
> > Two questions though.
> >
> > 1. Where are small businesses supposed to get money
> > for new vans/trucks without help from the government
> > and the Mayor?
> >
> > 2. Where are all the hundreds and thousands of older
> > trucks and vans going to go after they are not
> > allowed in London?
> >
> > The mayor does not care!!!
> You say "The mayor does not care"!!! well he does
> as we all know that he DID look at Kens dictates and
> found them wanting. So the expected extension to the
> LEZ starting October 2010 has been put aside. Simply
> as its not fair or reasonable.
>
> All vehicles over three years old must undergo a MOT
> and they can fail if they pollute. There were the
> days when diesels used to bletch out smoke, those
> days have gone as diesels have expensive catalytic
> converters and they are virtually no more polluting
> than petrol cars.
>
> The Mayor has proved that he thinks of people first,
> that's a first in the last ten years of badly run
> government and London.
>
> Emin

I think "badly run government" is a matter of conjecture. Ken made his mistakes but Boris, the supposed cycling Mayor, has reversed countless measure brought in by Ken to reduce pollution and wasteful motor journeys in Central London. Bojo is simply wealthy West London's Mayor, pandering to the classes who want to drive unhindered through London at everyone else's expense... Bojo on a bike was simply an election ploy.